Getting Past the Rhetoric on “Gun Control”

This stimulated so much discussion and some good thoughts and ideas on Facebook that I decided to bring the whole post and discussion back on the BLOG so that it will be easier to respond to and find.

I saw these facts on a meme that I think was designed to be incendiary rather than helpful. The picture it included and the sarcastic question that ended it made me not want to “like” it and expose more people to it in its original form. But here are the frustrating facts about the San Bernardino terrorism and murders:

  1. The guns that were used are illegal in CA.
  2. The guns were illegally purchased in CA.*
  3. The high-capacity magazines used are illegal in CA.
  4. The murders were committed in a “gun free zone.”
  5. It is illegal to build explosive devices in CA.

* some dispute over this. Waiting for the dust to settle on the information.

California has some of the strictest “gun control” laws in the country. Illinois, Chicago specifically, has the strictest gun control laws of any city in the country and yet is the violence and murder capital of the country. I’m not being sarcastic, I am just being honest. We need a better solution that “gun control” because “gun control” clearly does not work.

I’d love to see some practical, new, creative ideas, not slogans, from either the left or the right. Can we just be Americans looking for a solution to violence in America.

As a pastor, I have some pastoral ideas and community ideas, and church ideas but I am looking in the post for some public policy ideas. Anyone? And please, stay away from invective and questioning the motives of others who you do not know.


One thought on “Getting Past the Rhetoric on “Gun Control”

  1. David Burkhardt, Pete Zipf, James Ware and 24 others like this.
    3 shares

    Comments
    John Gavin
    The basis of lawlessness, is the disregard for the community, denial of a higher power that guides us, and elevation of self over fellow citizens…. We can write all the laws we want and to a segment of the population it is absolutely irrelevant.. Effectively we have stripped away the rights of law abiding citizens, and as individuals we have collectively abrogated our responsibility to provide for the common defense, instead relying upon police forces who are unable to be everywhere at once… the framers wrote the second ammendment in order to provide for the common defense. It is time we return to personal responsibility, and take charge of that duty… First, all military veterans who depart service with an honorable discharge, at or above the rank of sergeant, will report to local reserve centers for requalification with sidearms, and interview and training with local PD in order to be issued appropriate CCW license… These will become a cadre for police auxillary for the common defense..
    Like · Reply · 1 hr

    John Gavin
    Second, if you commit a crime with a weapon, mandatory 20 year sentence….discharge non-violent offenders to create space for the violent and derranged…
    Like · Reply · 1 hr

    John Gavin
    Third, gun free zones are no longer permitted…if you have a CCW, you are approved to provide for the common defense, and that extends to all spaces with the exception of areas under direct control of the military, or law enforcement agencies…
    Like · Reply · 1 hr

    . Me —>
    . John, I think there is some real merit to what you are saying. I don’t think there is much likelihood that it happens anytime soon.

    John Gavin
    The security complex and politicians, and to a degree the electorate, all have their vested interests…and personal responsibility and accountability is an early casualty of oppressive, and omnipresent government. ..
    Unlike · Reply · 1 · 10 mins

    Marty Schoenleber Jr
    I agree John. And even though in the current climate, your proposals are unlikely, that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a group of people with a long view who work to see some or all of what you say are implemented in some way.
    Like · Reply · 9 mins

    John Gavin
    I am afraid the events necessary to create a change in attitude necessary to alter the current trend would be beyond horrific. Though not beyond the possible…

    Terry Lee
    Your posts are always interesting John. Mine is pretty simple. How about teaching the Ten Commandments in school? You learned them John and you learned them Marty and I learned them. How about all the students who never learned them?
    Like · Reply · 50 mins

    Me—> Terry,
    That is pretty simple and I like it but as a public policy, it is not likely to go very far in the current climate. At the same time, I think churches and parents could be far more creative in educating their own about the Ten Commandments and in engaging the culture and teaching the culture the value of the ten commandments. Dennis Prager, orthodox Jew and radio talk show host, has a fantastic series on the Ten Commandments on his PragerU video series. I highly recommend it.

    John Gavin replied · 1 Reply
    John Gavin Sadly, we have determined that such rational ideas are unacceptable and will be removed from schools, and public property… Less than 60% of eligible voters exercise their political power, accordingly their voice is silent, and without merit…
    Like · Reply · 11 hrs · Edited

    Sam Arrington
    Yeah but something’s not adding up. My FOID card was taken away from me for 3 years because I spent one night at Linden Oaks Hospital to catch my breath. So how are these Sandy Hook shootings or Columbine we are the people are mentally stressed getting…See More
    Like · Reply · 34 mins

    David Oliver Kueker
    It is useful to have information, and that usually comes from folks that we don’t listen to … I was interested to read this information today on the problem, with facts I had not known before.

    http://www.vox.com/…/gun-violence-united-states-america

    America’s gun problem, explained
    The public and research support gun control. Here’s how it could help, and why it doesn’t pass.
    VOX.COM|BY GERMAN LOPEZ
    Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 33 mins

    David Oliver Kueker
    David Oliver Kueker Item #2

    http://www.vox.com/…/579…/us-world-firearm-ownership-map

    One map that puts America’s gun violence epidemic in perspective
    VOX.COM|BY ZACK BEAUCHAMP
    Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 32 mins

    David Oliver Kueker replied · 6 Replies · 2 mins
    David Oliver Kueker
    Item #3 – Quote: Congress’s decision not to pass background checks is not what’s keeping the US from European gun violence levels. The expiration of the assault weapons ban is not behind the gap. What’s behind the gap, plenty of research indicates, is that Americans have more guns. The statistics are mind-blowing: America has 4.4 percent of the world’s population but almost half of its civilian-owned guns.

    http://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454161/gun-violence-solution

    What surprised me about this quote was something I had not considered … that if there are more weapons around, there will be a higher likely tendency for them to be used. I had not heard that before. It may not make any real difference … but I had not heard it before.

    What no politician wants to admit about gun control
    VOX.COM|BY DYLAN MATTHEWS
    Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 5 mins · Edited

    David Oliver Kueker
    Item #4:

    http://www.vox.com/…/9540747/video-second-amendment-musket

    This video has a chilling start, but it makes a great point about the 2nd Amendment
    VOX.COM|BY GERMAN LOPEZ
    Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 27 mins

    David Oliver Kueker
    Again, I don’t have a prior position on this issue … I’m just interested in gathering information on all sides of the issue, especially if it has a scientific basis. While there is no simple solution, there must be information that we do not see or understand clearly. I am especially interested in information that is new and/or unusual.

    If you want to convince me that “your side” is right, show me your intelligence. Seriously.
    Like · Reply · 14 mins · Edited

    Sam Arrington
    Gotcha. the problem is if you’re looking for a conservative view you won’t get that from MSNBC if you’re looking for a liberal view you won’t get that from Fox. Its so hard to trust anyone. I do no that the crime rate in London is horrendous and they went and got three years ago
    Like · Reply · 29 mins

    David Oliver Kueker
    Sam Arrington , I’m sorry but I was editing my response when you were replying so it probably doesn’t say what you were responding to.

    As for watching MSNBC or Fox, I don’t watch much on TV except NCIS reruns, which I’m watching now. Television and radio doesn’t do a very good job of conveying scientific research.
    Like · Reply · 26 mins

    Sam Arrington
    I would agree. But even some scientist have agendas. Thats what I believe anyway. Hope I am wrong.
    Like · Reply · 25 mins

    David Oliver Kueker
    The best thing with science is to put everything on the table. They begin to critique each other, and possibly … something new in the way of information might result. Scientists are good at criticizing each other.
    Like · Reply · 1 · 23 mins

    Marty Schoenleber Jr
    Some great thoughts and ideas here so far. I don’t have time to interact tonight. But I am going to move the whole discussion including all the comments already made over to the BLOG so that I can more easily find it in the future (I lose things on Facebook) and extend the interaction time.
    Like · Reply · 1 · 2 mins

    Ben Meils
    This may have something to do with why we don’t have good research on the issue. http://www.cnn.com/…/jay-dickey-gun-violence-research/

    Former GOP congressman flips on support for gun violence research – CNNPolitics.com
    CNN.COM|BY JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN
    Like · Reply · Just now

    John Gavin
    As for the weapons…1 and 2, Both legal, both purchased through FFL in CA according to article on msn… http://www.msn.com/…/shooters-in-san…/ar-AAfZs6h…

    Shooters in San Bernardino massacre had a small arsenal
    MSN.COM
    Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 9 hrs

    Donna Henderson
    I agree that there has to be something better. It seems that we have been desensitized by all the violence in the entertainment media (TV shows, movies, etc.), that some of it doesn’t seem real until it happens to us in real life. I have heard of several incidents where people groups that were prone to violence became more civil (friendly) after being exposed to Christianity. The principles set forth in the Bible are an excellent starting point. (Too bad, we have to be politically correct.)

    Like

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